The Leinster Modal

   O'Rahilly (Early Irish History and Mythology) theorized that the Lagin came to Ireland somtime after 50 B.C. from Armorica in Gaul.

   Here are few interesting passages from O'Rahilly:

Chapter VI. The Laginian Invasion

Lagin. Domnain. Galioin.

"The Lagin, who have left their name on the province of Leinster, preserved the tradition that Lagin, Domnainn and Galioin were three names for the one people. We may interpret the tradition " as meaning that these were the names of closely related tribes."

   He then gives a few examples of how the names were interchangeable in early Irish records and mythology.

   To jump ahead in the text a bit, O'Rahilly concludes that the Lagin came to Ireland from Gaul and most likely from Little Brittany or Armorica, an area previously settled by Britons from southwest England.

   Here's where it gets a little interesting though.

"The Domnain of ireland were, it is hardly open to doubt, a branch of the Dumnonii of Devon and Cornwall. There were also Dumnonii in Scotland, where their territory, as we infer from Ptolemy, lay around Dumbarton and extended southwards into Renfrew, Lanark and Ayr. If, as is quite probable, these are another branch of the same tribe, thy must have reached Scotland by sea; and in that case it is perhaps more likely that they set out from the coast of Leinster than from South-West Britain. Possibly we may see a dim memory of this Scottish settlement in the raids on North Britain attributed to Labraid, ancestor of the Lagin."

"In early historical times the Lagin are the dominant power in that part of Leinster which lies south of the mouth of the Liffey; ....In the Ireland described by Ptolemy, on the other hand, there is not a trace of the Lagin or their kin, and those peoples whom we find occupying a subordinate position early in the historical period are in unchallgend occupation of this part of the country, eg, the Cauleni (Dal Mes Corb), the Manapi (Monaig) and the Brigantes (Ui Bairche)."

   Also

"The question remains: is there any evidence that the Laginian invaders had arrived in Ireland at the time when Ptolemy's account was originally compiled? There is certainly no evidence for them in Connacht, where, for instance, the Domnoni (who have left their name on Irish Domnann, Dun Domnann, Mag Domnann, Tulcha Domnann) are not mentioned. It remains to see whether any Laginian tribes can be traced in the south-east of Ireland, where the Laginian invasion most permanently left its mark."

   Other writers also have tackled the subject of the Lagin and Dumnonii of southwest England.

Celtic Scotland, the Picts, The Scots
& the Welsh of Southern Scotland.
H.M. Chadwick

"Apart from the Coritani (Qritani) the chief peoples of southern Britain whose territories had not been included in the area of Iron Age A were the Cornovii and the Dumnonii. In Roman times, according to Ptolemy, the former occupied the north-west Midlands. A considerable part of Wales may also have been included in their territories. Their capital was Wroxeter (Vriconium), near Shrewsbury. The Dumnonii occupied Cornwall, Devon (which preserves their name) and perhaps part of Somerset. Their capital seems to have been Exeter (Isca). In Ptolemy's map both of these peoples appear in Scotland - the Cornovii in the extreme north, Sutherland and Caithness, the Dumnonii apparently between Ayrshire and Stirlingshire. Again, from the fifth or sixth century onwards the Cornovii (Cernyw, etc.) appear also in Cornwall, which still preserves their name. If they were there in Roman times, they must have been subject to the Dumnonii. Their name is probably to be traced also in Curocornovium, an alternative name for Corinium (Cirencester), and in a number of placenames in various parts of Wales. Lastly, the name Dumnonii is usually connected with the Domnain of Ireland. In our earliest records, this name is applied to kings of Leinster; and the name Inber Domnain was formerly applied to Malahide Bay (Co. Dublin). But in later times the Domnainn, also called Fir Domnann, were known only in the west of Connacht."

footnote: Apart from Ptolemy, we may refer to Solinus, cap. 22: "The island of Silura (apparently Scilly) is separated by a stormy strait from the coast which is occupied by the Dumnonii, a British people."

"In Ptolemy's map four peoples are located in the south of Scotland. The points of the compass are erroneously stated (cf. p. 72); but it is clear that he means to place the Noouantai in Galloway and perhaps Dumfries, and the Uotadinoi (written Otalinoi?) on the east side, between the Forth and the Tyne. The Selgouai lie between these two peoples, and the Dumnonioi (miswritten Damnioi, Damnonioi) north of the Selgouai, extending apparently from Ayshire into Perthshire. All these peoples are usually assumed to be British. But only one of them survived in later times - the Votadini, known as Guotodin, Gododdin, in early Welsh poetry. The Dumnonioi were presumably of the same stock as their namesakes in Devon and Cornwall (cf. Chapter v above). The latter were certainly British in later times; so it is inferred that the northern Dumnonioi were likewise British.But, as we have seen, another branch of the same stock is found in Ireland - the Domnainn or Fir Domnann of Leinster - and it is apparently nowhere suggested that they spoke any language but Irish."

   While most writers on the subject accept O'Rahilly's theories of the origin of the Lagin in Ireland many doubt that the Dumnonii of SW England and the Dumnonii of lowland Scotland were the same tribe.

   William Skene, the Scottish antiquarian, also mentioned the Domnonii of Scotland.

"...the great nation of the Domnonii lay north of the Selgovae and Novantae, separated from them by the chain of hills which divides the northern rivers from the waters which flow into the Solway, extending as far north as the Tay. South of the Forth of Clyde they possessed the modern counties of Ayr, Lanark, and Renfrew, and, north of these estuaries, the counties of Dumbaton and Stirling and the distrcits of Menteith, Stratherne, and Fothreve, or the western half of the peninsula of fife. They thus lay in the centre of Scotland, and were the novae gentes whose territory Agricola ravaged."

   Many writers connect the Dumnonii of Scotland to the northern British kingdom of Strathclyde.

"Strathclyde (Gaelic: Srath Chluaidh) (lit. "Valley of the Clyde"),
originally Brythonic Ystrad Clud. It is also known as Alt Clut, the
Brythonic name for Dumbarton Rock, the medieval capital of the region,
which was one of the kingdoms of the Brythons in southern Scotland
throughout the post-Roman period (also known as the Dark Ages), and
the Middle Ages. It may have had its origins in the Damnonii of Ptolemy's Geographia.

Place-name and archaeological evidence points to some settlement by Norse
or Norse-Gaels in the Viking Age, although to a lesser degree than in
neighbouring Galloway. A small number of Anglian place-names show some limited
settlement by incomers from Northumbria prior to the Norse settlement. Due
to the series of language changes in the area, it is not possible to say
whether any Goidelic settlement took place before Gaelic was introduced
in the High Middle Ages.

After the sack of Dumbarton Rock by a Viking army from Dublin in 870, the name
Strathclyde comes into use, perhaps reflecting a move of the centre of the kingdom
to Govan. In the same period, it was also referred to as Cumbria, and its inhabitants
as Cumbrians. During the High Middle Ages, the area was conquered by the kingdom of
Alba, becoming part of the new kingdom of Scotland. It remained a distinctive area
into the 12th century."

   See Wikipedia "Kingdom of Stathclyde"

   Many historians also see evidence of "Leinstermen" in Wales.

   "In the fourth and fifth centuries, a large Irish colony, originating from southeast Ireland, was established in south-west Wales (Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, and Cardiganshire (now Dyfed). The rulers were of the Deisi, the ruling class spoke Irish, and the kingdom was apparently bilingual in the fifth century. There was another, less important, Irish colony in north Wales in Anglesea, Carvarvonshire, and Denbighshire. Here some of the colonists (for we do not know whether others were involved) left their name on the Lleyn peninsula, which derives it name from Laigin, the ruling dynasty of Leinster in the Early Christian period. their name also survives in that of a village on Nevin Bay, Porth Dinllaen, 'the harbour of the fort of the Leinstermen.' A third colony was established in south-west Britain, in the Cornish peninsula, by colonists called Ui Liathain. These were probably Erainn and were settled in historic times in the east of Co. Cork. The learned scholar-bishop and king of Cashel, Cormac (d. 908), preserves in his Glossary an account of Irish colonization in western Britain: "The power of the Irish over the Britons was great, and they had divided Britain between them into estates; ...... and the Irish lived as much east of the sea as they did in Ireland, and their dwellings and royal fortresses were made there. Hence is Dind Tradui, ..... that is, the triple rampart of Crimthann, king of Ireland and Britain as far as the English Channel. From this division originated the fort of the sons of Liathain in the land of the Britons of Cornwall......And they were in that control for a long time, even after the coming of St. Patrick to Ireland." Cormac's source is not known, but his account is broadly confirmed elsewhere. As Professor jackson says, "it seems a certain fact that, at some time in the late Roman period, Irish colonies from East Munster settled in South Wales, Cornwall and Devon, and from one of them sprang a line of kings of south-west Wales who were still ruling there in the tenth century." Less is known of the colony in North Wales; there is no information in Irish sources, but Nennius records how Cunedda and his eight sons drove the Irish out of north Wales in what may have been the middle of the fifth century, though there may have been further struggles before the Irish were finally conquered in this area."

   Oxford Illustrated History of Ireland

The DYS 464X test (ccgg)

   The Leinster clans of Ireland aren't the only surnames that match the Leinster modal. Another large group that match are the Beattys of lowland Scotland, said to be one of the border reiver clans. According to the Surname Profiler the Beatty surname is heaviest in the far northern English county of Northumbria along the Scottish border but common throughout the lowlands with a secondary concentration in Argyllshire.

   Both the Beattys and the Byrnes have underdone extensive DYS 464X tests. For more information on the test see John McEwan's 464X page. For a technical explanation of ReCLOH see Thomas Krahn's article at DNA Fingerprint.

   John McEwan describes the ccgg group in a post to the GEN-DNA list in July 2007

"We have had a number of new DYS464x results and I have now created a
separate "puesdo subclade" called R1b1c/ccgg7+ This is for people in
R1bSTR7 haplotype cluster who have tested and been found to have ccgg at
DYS464. This group has other names such as the Leinster cluster,
Burns/Beattie cluster or Irish sea cluster. This group has up to a GD of
9 on 37 markers for those tested and this means it is *OLD*. By the time
it is fully exemplified I think we will be talking about Neolithic (pre
roman) migrations. My guess it went from Northern England into Ireland,
perhaps in the Celtic era, but we need enough examples to be able to see
if the English examples are more diverse than the Irish. I again
strongly recommend anybody close to this group to test for DYS464x and
DYF399x. If we think about it this group accounts for ~5% of Irish
R1b1c, ~4% of English R1b1c and ~3% of Scots R1b1c so it may be the
biggest R1b1c group defined recently even if we are limited to a
pseudo-SNP for its characterisation. It has an interesting story to
tell."

John McEwan's R1bSTR clusters
John McEwan's R1bSTR7 cluster (.pdf file)

Beattys and Byrnes

D
Y
S
3
9
3

D
Y
S
3
9
0

D
Y
S
1
9
/
3
9
4

D
Y
S
3
9
1

D
Y
S
3
8
5
a

D
Y
S
3
8
5
b

D
Y
S
4
2
6

D
Y
S
3
8
8

D
Y
S
4
3
9

D
Y
S
3
8
9
-
1

D
Y
S
3
9
2

D
Y
S
3
8
9
-
2

D
Y
S
4
5
8

D
Y
S
4
5
9
a

D
Y
S
4
5
9
b

D
Y
S
4
5
5

D
Y
S
4
5
4

D
Y
S
4
4
7

D
Y
S
4
3
7

D
Y
S
4
4
8

D
Y
S
4
4
9

D
Y
S
4
6
4
a

D
Y
S
4
6
4
b

D
Y
S
4
6
4
c

D
Y
S
4
6
4
d

D
Y
S
4
6
0

G
A
T
A
H
4

Y
C
A
I
i
a

Y
C
A
I
i
b

D
Y
S
4
5
6

D
Y
S
6
0
7

D
Y
S
5
7
6

D
Y
S
5
7
0

C
D
Y
a

C
D
Y
b

D
Y
S
4
4
2

D
Y
S
4
3
8

R1b modal

63PFZ Burns

8AMP4 Byrne

BHJ39 Byrne

HQJA2 Burns

RUQ9S Byrne

UPREK Byrne

5AP85 Byrne

6ZXD2 Burns

ZCAUV Byrne

SFWJ7 Beaty

8PGWW Baity

YZU3V Beaty

57U9T Beattey

7GX6B Beaty

8PDFF Beatty

97XKS Beattie

7777G Beaty

Distance from reference:

Zero

One

Two

Three+

   So far most of the people who have tested positive for ccgg in the 464X test match the Leinster modal STRS, including the Beattys and the Byrnes of Leinster. One Byrne in the Byrne Surname Project does match the Leinster modal STRS but did not test ccgg. Presumably his DNA underwent another more recent ReCLOH event which changed the pattern yet again. Another Byrne sample that is an exellent match to the modal tested cccg. Other samples with STR patterns that do no match the Leinster modal have tested ccgg. These men probably represent separate ccgg events. unrelated to the Beatty/Byrnes cluster.

   Six of the Byrnes who match the Leinster modal have taken the S series of tests at FTDNA and are negative (M269+) which makes them R1b1c or R1b1b2 in the new nomenclature. There are at least a few DNA samples in the NULL 439 and S26 databases that have part of the Leinster modal (14-13-30). One example is a Bayly from England (gg976 on Ysearch) who tested positive for S21. If there's any deduction to be drawn from this it is probably that not everyone who has DYS 389i - 389ii (14-13-30) matches the Leinster cluster. The Baly sample has the following:

14-13-30;. DYS 448, 449 = 18-29; DYS 442 = 12; CDYb = 40 (high). DYS 464 = 15-15-16-17; DYS 492 = 13.

   According to DNA experts 492 = 13 is a indicator of S21 SNP status. So far not a single member of the Leinster modal group with extended marker tests (there are several in the ccgg group) has 492 = 13. And so far no S21 or NULL 439 samples have DYS 442 = 11.

464x ccgg Test Results

D
Y
S
3
9
3

D
Y
S
3
9
0

D
Y
S
1
9
/
3
9
4

D
Y
S
3
9
1

D
Y
S
3
8
5
a

D
Y
S
3
8
5
b

D
Y
S
4
2
6

D
Y
S
3
8
8

D
Y
S
4
3
9

D
Y
S
3
8
9
-
1

D
Y
S
3
9
2

D
Y
S
3
8
9
-
2

D
Y
S
4
5
8

D
Y
S
4
5
9
a

D
Y
S
4
5
9
b

D
Y
S
4
5
5

D
Y
S
4
5
4

D
Y
S
4
4
7

D
Y
S
4
3
7

D
Y
S
4
4
8

D
Y
S
4
4
9

D
Y
S
4
6
4
a

D
Y
S
4
6
4
b

D
Y
S
4
6
4
c

D
Y
S
4
6
4
d

D
Y
S
4
6
0

G
A
T
A
H
4

Y
C
A
I
i
a

Y
C
A
I
i
b

D
Y
S
4
5
6

D
Y
S
6
0
7

D
Y
S
5
7
6

D
Y
S
5
7
0

C
D
Y
a

C
D
Y
b

D
Y
S
4
4
2

D
Y
S
4
3
8

R1b modal

T78VB Beatty

V929P Beatty

CD3XA Beaty

EZRDK Beaty

S7EM6 McHale

63PFZ Burns

RE7TY Byrne

D4MF8 BYRNE

6ZXD2 BURNS

RUQ9S BYRNE

NFREP BYRNES

HQJA2 BURNS

CXW9Y McLaughlin

FDUQN McCloughan

ZJRCZ McCloughan

x4juh Foley

8YRRF Quigley

NQJ6J Ferguson

ZW4EC Barlow

Distance from reference:

Zero

One

Two

Three+

Ysearch ID	Surname	DYS 464X	DYF399

T78VB	Beatty	15c 15c 17g 17g
V929P	Beatty	15c 15c 17g 17g
CD3XA	Beaty	15c 16c 17g 17g
EZRDK	Beaty	15c 16c 17g 17g	21.0 22.0 27.1
63PFZ	Burns	15c 15c 17g 17g	20t 26c 26.1t
RE7TY	Byrne	15c 15c 17g 17g	21t 25c 25.1t
D4MF8	Byrne	15c 15c 17g 17g	21t 27c 27.1t
6ZXD2	Burns	15c 15c 17g 18g	20 21t 25c 27.1t
NFREP	Byrnes	15c 15c 17g 17g	20 21t 25c 25.1t
HQJA2	Burns	15c 15c 17g 17g	20 21t 25c 27.1t
RUQ9S	Byrne	15c 15c 17g 17g
X4JUH	Foley	15c 16c 17g 16g	21t 26 1t-27c
S7EM6	McHale	15c 15c 17g 17g	2vt 26c 28.1t
FDUQN	McCloughan	15c-15c-17g-18g
ZJRCZ	McCloughan	15c-15c-17g-18g
CXW9Y	McLaughlin	15c-15c-17g-17g	21t-23c-28.1t
8YRRF	Quigley	15c-15c-17g-17g	19t 24c,25,1t
NQJ6J	Ferguson	15c-15c-17g-17g	19t 24c,25,1t

The following sample is the only Byrne from Leinster who did not test ccgg. The STR markers for this test are listed in the Beatty-Byrnes table above. The markers are a perfect match for the Leinster modal.

ZCAUV	Byrne	15c 15g 16g 17g

The following sample tested cccg (The STRS matched the modal)..

K7TAW	Quilliam (FitzWilliam)	15c-15c-17c-17g

The two McCloughans in the test have a family tradition of being Scots-Irish. The surname is nearly unique to Co. Down in northern Ireland in the Griffith's Valuations. The McLaughlin in the test has ancestors from the Letterkenny area in Donegal but may be Scots-Irish as well. For further reference see McLaughlin of Scotland on this web site.

Click here to join Beatty_Byrnes_DNA

Click to join Beatty_Byrnes_DNA_Group
   There are other surnames in public DNA databases with origins in Leinster or bordering areas in Munster that also match the Leinster modal.

JXYQU Doyle
MF9AP Dunphy
9DC6P Fortune
XR7UX Gleason
SMGF O'Connor
6NVVN Toole
TDYS8 Towle
6FBUN Tynan
SMGF Whalen

   A few surnames might be Norman in origin:

ms8mx Bennet
PXDEB D'Arcy
3F8HP Dillin
YYU5A Dillin
DRJZP Lacey
SMGF Pendergrass
M8PSX Jordan

   One Surname means literally "the Welshman."

JXPA2 Wallace
V69TR Wallace

MacLysaght, Surnames of Scotland, Wallace,
DNA Norman, le Waleis, 'the Welshman', the name
a Scottish clan

   There are also a lot of very English appearing surnames in public databases which match part or all of the Leinster modal.

   DNA experts are divided on the usefullness of the 464X test for genealogical purposes. John McEwan has said he thought the 464X results function as a pseudo SNP and could be useful in tracking lineages through DNA. Thomas Krahn is on record as stating the condition is too volatile to use for genealogy.

   We would however encourage anyone whose STRS match the Leinster modal to order the 464X test at FamilyTree DNA. As far as DNA tests go it's reasonably inexpensive ($17) and may prove helpful in further defining the Leinster modal cluster. There is a fair amount of DNA that matches part but not all of the modal. For example there are DNA samples that have DYS 389i to 389ii = 14-13-30 but miss at the other parts of the modal, especially at DYS 442 = 11. Without more 464X ccgg tests we have no way of knowing if this DNA truly matches the Leinster modal or not. Some volatility is to be expected in test results (see Thomas Krahn's remarks above. But if the Byrnes and Beattys are an example we may well discover that the overwhelming majority of those who match the Leinter modal STRS at least in part do belong to the cluster.

   For completeness' sake we should mention that the same basic modal was discovered independently by Paul Burns of the Byrnes Surname Project and the Beatty surname project. Working with the latter Peter Dunphy called it the "Irish Sea modal," not to be confused with various other North Sea modals and Irish Sea modals proposed by other web sites.

Links to sites relevant to Leinster modal DNA.

DNA

Byrne DNA Project
Beatty DNA Project
McHale Y-DNA Project
Cavanaugh DNA Project
Toole (O'Toole) DNA Project

Clan Web Sites

The Royal House of Leinster
Clann Chaomhanach (Cavanagh)
The Byrne Clan
The Kinsella Homepage

Other Surnames in Ysearch matching the Leinster Modal perfectly.

DYS 389i = 14; DYS 392 = 13; DYS 389ii = 30; DYS 448 = 18; DYS 442 = 11

E5WGN	Agee	U.S.
6Y9G8	Asbell	unknown
7V4G5	Armstrong	England
UAWPH	Babie	Ranville-Breuillaud, France
7WA2Y	Barker	unknown
7QF2K	Barker	Shropshire, England
EFZVH	Barker	unknown
CRNA3	Barry	Limerick, Ireland
ms8mx	Bennet	Laois, Ireland
B2XV7	Berry	unknown
CG34V	Cameron	Inverness-shire, Scotland
GKS2D	Carmack	unknown
PAMN9	Carmack	unknown
2VVX9	Carter	unknown
MK94T	Clarke	Carlow
YJA66	Cotton	Derbyshire, England
P9SVH	Craig	unknown
6Z57A	Cullen	Wicklow, Ireland
PXDEB	D'Arcy	Wicklow
8DYP8	Davidson	Scotland
CJ4JD	de Bohun	unknown
3F8HP	Dillin	unknown
YYU5A	Dillin	ireland
XTVR3	Downing	U.S.
JXYQU	Doyle	U.S.
VWWP8	Duncan	unknown
5242N	Edge	unknown
8W3CT	Elkins	England
4778W	Elliott	unknown
72BSN	Elliott	U.S.
NQJ6J	Ferguson	Scotland
PQ5Q5	Ferguson	Glasgow, Scotland
x4juh	Foley	Cork, Ireland
9DC6P	Fortune	Newry, Ireland
K9FVF	Gardner	unknown
BF3JQ	Gatlin	unknown
UA5DY	Geary	Limerick, Ireland
2EHJX	Glenn	Ireland
SVB3A	Green	England
HZPVF	Hamilton	U.S.
573T7I	Ireland	Castlefinn Co. Donegal, Ireland
DRJZP	Lacey	Ireland
74YE2	Lopez	Spain
7E5D3	McCaine	Farnham, Northern Ireland
Y2E66	McKenzie	Ross-shire
8T6KZ	McDonald	Scotland
BDU8V	McHale	Ireland
YZG4V	McHale	Mayo, ireland
MAC4P	McInvale	Irland
SWX5J	Nelson	unknown
M8B26	Oden	unknown
DVQSJ	O'Neill	unknown
DDTKT	Owings	U.S.
BNXND	Owen	U.S.
TENCV	Ray	unknown
NUFPT	Rhea	Scotland
9B9ER	Riley	unknown
SMGF	Robertson	Scotland
PHDZ6	Robinson	U.S.
QQJC5	Spence	unknown
TDYS8	Towle	Lincolnshire, England
6FBUN	Tynan	Kilkenny, Ireland
JXPA2	Wallace	Ireland
PUBF4	Wethington	England
SMGF	Whalen	Ireland
ZJBZJ	Winder	U.S.
TAMJS	Winders	unknown
TWZVB	Young	Cork, Ireland

Leinster Modal Results (Trinity database)

Surname	Sample Size	Distribution

Bradley	31	Leinster (1)
Byrne	61	Leinster (41)
Coulter	13	Ulster (1)
Donohoe}	76	Leinster (1) Munster (2)
Dunleavy	12	Munster (3)
Egan	20	Leinster (3) Munster (1) Connacht (1)
Farrelly	5	Leinster (3) Ulster (1) Connacht (1)
Geary	7	Munster (3)
Kelly	60	Leinster (4) Munster (1) Connacht (1) Ulster (1)
Kennedy	68	Munster (5) Ulster (1) unknown (1)
McCartan	13	Ulster (1)
McCarthy	70	Leinster (1) Munster (3)
McEvoy	52	Leinster (16) Munster (1) Ulster (1)
McGillicuddy	21	Munster (7) unknown (1)
McGuinness	100	Leinster (2)
McKiernan	6	Ulster (1)
Murphy	68	Leinster (7) Munster (13)
O'Hanlon	15	Leinster (1)
O'Hara	10	Connacht (1)
O'Neill	80	Leinster (2) Connacht (1) Ulster (1) unknown (1)
O'Rourke	5	Leinster (1)
O'Sullivan	70	Munster (6)
Ryan	64	Leinster (6) Munster (1) unknown (1)

Totals

Leinster	Munster	Connacht	Ulster
89	46	4	8